පරිශීලක සාකච්ඡාව:Mtarch11

Please read and understand

Please read විකිපීඩියා:Global sysops page before exercising your Global sysops rights. -- Lee (talk) 10:29, 4 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

Hi @Lee:, what's the problem? --Mtarch11 (talk) 11:14, 4 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

Nothing serious. But "suspected test page", is not a global sysop emergency; in my opinion. Anyway, when there is an active community, "external parties" should help the locals not intimidate them; isn't it? -- Lee (talk) 02:38, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: I regret that deleting an obvious test page, which is a routine GS operation handled via GSR, is considered an intimidating action. Personally I will no longer do anything on siwiki, but I will report this so that it is not repeated to other GS during their ordinary cleaning operations. Greetings, --Mtarch11 (talk) 04:30, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

I believe you read me wrong. How many times have you seen people from siwiki question your actions? That's because normal siwiki users are scared of your powers. Anyway who made that request to global sysops when there are active local sysops in this project? What rights does that person have over the active community here? -- Lee (talk) 05:38, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: the activity of the GS is rarely contested because they can only act for ordinary maintenance and the fight against acts of vandalism, in compliance with the policy that regulates their action. As I believe I have always done. For this reason it is very unlikely that any user will feel "scared" by our activity. I'm sorry to see there seems to be a problem (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) with GS here. Personally I will avoid intervening in the future. Sincerely, --Mtarch11 (talk) 06:15, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: I read "This is a draft" in that page. If you don't want the GS to act here just open a discussion and gain the consensus (with a valid reason) and let us know. No one is aware of a policy who limits LTA on any project and we probably won't accept it (at least I won't accept it), preferring to completely remove this wiki from the GS wikiset rather than say "on this project you can only do this and this"! But, before doing this, it's better to understand who the GS are and, since you said "What rights does that person have over the active community here", I understand that you probably never read global policy.

But, please, don't say things like "normal siwiki users are scared of your powers", because this sentence can only be said by someone who has no idea who the GS are and I consider it disrespectful towards the excellent community service that the whole GS team do every day (and consider also that they, after having fought against the LTAs and having taken the insults of the LTAs, must also hear the controversies of the local communities who think that they are abusing).

What kind of power do GSs have? They don't enter in community matter, they don't have editorial powers, they just delete pages which are clear vandalism or perform routine maintenance (like fixing the interface or deleting stuff and so on)! The GSs are active here because this project meets the global policy requirements.

Before thinking about limiting or removing GSs though, think about one thing: On this project there's only 1 active sysop (you). If you're not active at any moment and a spammer or a LTA targets this project (and we have some LTAs who target small non-GS wikis just to do some mess), who will intervene here? As steward, I would think twice before intervening, considering that the community has rejected the GS. Furthermore, a non-GS wiki is certainly less patrolled by GS, so the LTA are freer.

Having considered all this, the local community can make the choice they prefer, there are pros and cons to any choice of course (base on the various points of view)! You just need to weigh the benefits against the risks. Have a nice day! Superpes15 (talk) 10:17, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

Just re-read what you have written and think how scared that makes me. I am no new user. Please allow me some time to get back to you, since there is an issue with my keyboard. -- Lee (talk) 12:06, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: I'm sorry but I don't understand what does exactly scare you? I just told you that you can open a local discussion and, if there's local consensus, we'll remove this wiki from the global sysop wikiset, and I explained you the cons and the pros, even if imho the only pro I can see is that you aren't anymore "worried" by GS, and I don't understand why you actually are.

We are here to serve your community and your need, not to impose ourselves or to have power (which we actually don't have). Please let me know what scares you, so I can understand your point and help you (and there is no rush in replying me). Remember to ping me, so I can see your message immediately :) Thanks Superpes15 (talk) 12:39, 5 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Superpes15:There are several issues here. I'll try to go through each one here.

1. Take this article: ශ්‍රී ලංකාවේ උප තැපැල් කාර්යාල ලැයිස්තුව/ම. According to global sysop policies this is an "obvious test page" that must be deleted ASAP. Otherwise Mtarch11 would not have done so.

Is the article title correct? Yes. You can verify this by checking "What links here", there already exist a red link from ශ්‍රී ලංකාවේ උප තැපැල් කාර්යාල ලැයිස්තුව. So that means it is not a junk title. Then take the content. Do a simple google search and you can see that there is a post office in Sri Lanka with that name. So the conntent is also valid.

There is only one line in the page. It is not categorized. The layout of the page is not in the correct format. May be that is good enough reason for global sysops to delete pages.

But an incomplete list article with a correct title and valid content; does not qualify as a test page that should be deleted ASAP, in siwiki. That is why I pointed out that there exist some guidlines for global sysops, written by two stewards.

-- Lee (talk) 10:18, 6 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: Just to understand, is this content valid in your opinion (literally it was only written "මුරුතලාව")? How a page called "list of secondary post office in Sri Lanka" and with only a single word can be notable on any wiki? It wouldn't be notable even on wikivoyage! Then, if you're not joking, please explain me why didn't you complain before, maybe contacting Mtarch11, about this deletion (made almost 2 years ago) and why does the page is still deleted at the moment?

I repeat, if you don't want GSs, gain the local consensus and we'll remove them on this wiki!

Also, I'm still waiting to undestand what scared you in my previous reply! Thanks Superpes15 (talk) 10:34, 6 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: GS comes here to help, but I'm more than sure that a page like this would be deleted by any GS or any steward, like on any other Wiki. I can't speak for others, but if pages like this are maintained here, I recommend you open a discussion and get consent to remove GS from here. --Mtarch11 (talk) 03:08, 7 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Mtarch11:@Superpes15: Well, for one thing I didn't go through his actions log before he stated that he performed no action that violates global sysop policies. Then I left that page deleted so that others can understand the gravity of the situation. Only you and me can see the content. Normal users cannot.

You asked why I didn't complain then? I'm not complaining even now. I just pointed out there exit a guideline for global sysops here, written by two stewards.

Coming back to the current question, you both say that global sysops belive that page is a "test page that should be deleted ASAP". But the community here, including myself believes otherwise. Doesn't that automatically makes it a controversial thing? Are global sysops allowed to perform such actions?

I am well aware that we can opt-out, but I personally would like the support of global sysops and small wiki monitoring team to fight vandalism and resolve copyright issues. If you don't want to help, that is your choice.

One other thing, please provide us with the link where this incident is reported to higher powers, so we can also learn what is being discussed there. Lee (talk) 04:08, 7 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

2. Regarding "What rights does that person have over the active community here"

I'm not questioning global sysops here. I'm quationing the small wiki monitoring team member who raised this issue to global sysops.

There are two active sysops in this project and at that time there was only one item in the deletion queue. Which also is a suspected test page, not an obvious test page that must be deleted ASAP, according to our local policies.

Why bring up global sysops, especially when there exist a global sysop policy that request them to help in counter vandalism and not to interfere with ordinary maintenance work? -- Lee (talk) 04:26, 7 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

Guys, if you think I sound aggressive; that is not the case. I'm not a native English speaker, so I may have an incorrect tone in my writing. I must tell you, I really appreciate you taking time to keep this channel open. -- Lee (talk) 09:07, 7 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: Will notify the policy on metawiki and let you know! Superpes15 (talk) 15:43, 7 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Superpes15:BTW, did you note the text that say the below on the global sysop policy page:

...and they have no extra editorial control over content or the local community.

What you are saying here is a direct violation of the above; isn't it? -- Lee (talk) 03:11, 9 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: You probably didn't read my comment above, since I said the same thing. And no, I have never done anything remotely resembling editorial control on any project. Like I said, you're free to do what you like, but you can't limit GS actions imho (so it's probably best to remove them from this wiki in my humble view)! Let the global community talk and please, if you want to say something about it, write on metawiki (where I pinged you). I don't want to continue an unconstructive discussion! Thanks for your understanding Superpes15 (talk) 08:19, 9 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

That's two times accusing me for not reading things correctly where you yourself have not read the global sysop policy, which clearly states "...and they have no extra editorial control over content or the local community." Anyway this whole discussion is not constructive because you are defending your rights to force your opinions on our community. Please do not delete this discussion, for I want to save it for future references. If you need to clean up your talk page, please move it to somewhere and let me know the link. My transmission is over and I am not expecting a reply. -- Lee (talk) 12:06, 14 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee: "You are defending your rights to force your opinions on our community" I consider this highly offensive towards me and my commitment to trying to handle any situation and help everyone on wiki. Comments like yours make me think why sometimes it's better to leave projects with their problems alone and not help them, given that when a volunteer tries to help others, they're often insulted or only receives protests without reason. I don't expect thanks, but I don't expect to be treated with disrespect either, and respect seems to me to be owed to me just as I have it towards you and any other user (from the anonymous one to the head of WMF). That said, If I said twice that GS and stewards have not editorial power, and you don't want to understand, is not my problem. I've never imposed anything on any user, let alone within a whole project, and for me it's shameful to read these things, even written in a somewhat hidden way, because you cleverly don't use ping! Here the problem is not the editorial content, but you don't want to understand, the issue is the application of a global policy (which is not a content or editorial policy and that I didn't write or vote for - so I don't understand what you're accusing me of trying to impose - the policy is there and must be respected by me, you, other users and everyone!!!), nothing more! Superpes15 (talk) 12:52, 18 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

මම මේ සාකච්ජාව දැක්කෙ පරක්කු වෙලා. ඒක මකන්න අවශ්‍ය නැති ලිපියක් තමා. Global sysop ලට අපේ බාසාව නොතේරෙන නිසා සහ අදාල ප්‍රස්තුය නොතේරෙන නිසා deletion tag දාන්න ඇති. Singhalawap (talk) 13:59, 18 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Singhalawap: I don't understand why you too are focusing on that action! The issue here is not the deletion (a simple action that you or the other sysop could revert, but no one reverted in the last 2 years until last days), but the local (draft) policy which (according to you) limits the global policy, and this is imho not possible, as you can read on metawiki! That's just the point Superpes15 (talk) 14:25, 18 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Superpes15: ඉතින් ඒක ම තමා අපි මෙතන මතු කරන ගැටළුව. ඔයාලා මකන්නයි මෙතන ඉන්න පරිපාලකයෝ ප්‍රතිස්ථාපනය කරන්නයි කරන්න ගත්තම අපි කොහොමද මේ ව්‍යාපෘතිය ඉස්සරහට ගෙනියන්නේ? අපිත් මේකේ වැඩ කරනේ ස්වේච්ඡාවෙන්. අපිටත් මේ කරන වැඩ වලට පඩියක් හම්බ වෙන්නේ නෑ. අනෙක ඔයා මට කරන අපහාසය හරි ද? ඒක ම මම නැවත ඉදිරිපත් කරන කොට වැරදි නම්, මුලින් ම ඔයා එහෙම ප්‍රකාශයක් කරනකොට මටත් අපහාසයක් වෙන බව අමතක කරන්න එපා. මම මුල ඉඳලා ම වලංගු අන්තර්ගතයක්, ඒක තේරෙන්නේ නැති කෙනෙක් ඉවත් කරනවාට විරුද්ධයි. ඔයගොල්ලෝ පස් තැනක මම ඔයාලගෙ කට්ටියට ඒක මතක් කරලා තියෙන බව දැක්කා නේ. ඒ හැමෝම හැබැයි ඒක ලොකු ප්‍රශ්නයක් කරගත්තේ නෑ. අනෙක ගෝලීය පරිපාලක ප්‍රතිපත්තිය මගෙ පැත්තේ තියෙන්නේ. ඒකේ පැහැදිලිව කියලා තියෙනවා ඔයාලට අන්තර්ගතය පිළිබඳ සංස්කාරක බලතල නැති බව. ඔයාලා ඔයාලට වාසි නිසා මම ගෙනාපු ඒ කරුණ අමතක කරලා අදාළ නැති කාරණාවලට මාත් එක්ක පැටලෙන්න එනවා. මම ඔයාට ping කළේ නැත්තේ, ඔයා සාකච්ඡාවෙන් ඉවත් වුනා කියලා කලින් දැනුම් දීලා තිබුණ නිසා. -- Lee (talk) 14:44, 18 නොවැම්බර් 2023 (යූටීසී)

@Lee,voluntary efforts, Sinhala wiki are the backbone of the project, and it's unacceptable for global sysop. to dismiss our local expertise. Deleting content without understanding its significance disregards our hard work. We demand respect for our contributions and a more inclusive approach. Global admins must acknowledge the strength of our local knowledge. and it's utterly unacceptable for global admins to dismiss our hard work. Considering the limited number of contributors on Sinhala Wikipedia, global interference is a form of harassment that leaves us disappointed and disheartened. Such unnecessary interference undermines the collaborative spirit of Wikia projects. Let's address this issue seriously and ensure our voices are heard.

RsEkanayake 03:48, 21 ජනවාරි 2024 (යූටීසී)