පරිශීලක සාකච්ඡාව:Lee/Archive/Archive/2010/May

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විකිපීඩියා වෙතින්

please please[සංස්කරණය]

කියන තැනකට වඳින්නම්, කරුණාකර පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ ව්‍යසනයෙන් සිංහල විකිපීඩියාව බේරාදෙන්න.Singhalawap 17:46, 12 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand the request. I checked his recent changes and it seems everything is in order. මොකද්ද සිද්දිය මචං? --Lee 13:01, 16 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
Since I was one of the critics of පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ (only his actions within the Sinhala Wikipedia; Please note that I have no contention with their NGO activities), the whole problem is pronounced here in a nutshell for the benefit of our machan administrator Lee
  1. Inclusion of a proclamation at the bottom of each article that it had been translated by the Felidae organization. Here we notice a mismatch with Wikipedian rules, regulations, ethics & customs. As we are made to understand, each wikipedia article belongs to the whole community and not to any individual party or for that matter to the editor/translator. We notice that so called Felidae organization is nor the original writer of the said articles or the editor of the said articles or the translator of the said articles. Inclusion of this indication should be removed (the user should be told not to include it). When this kind of inclusion by other users occurred earlier in Sinhala Wikipedia, they were suitably enlightened and the recurrence was avoided. We would like to see a uniform practice exercised within the Sinhala Wikipedia. (to avoid, may be erroneous conclusions that certain mega users are unduly favored)
  2. Breaking huge English Wikipedia articles into minute (relative to the size of original English article) portions and translating (or attempting to translate). Here the issue is usefulness to general Wikipedian community. Some articles are so concise the knowledge that could be grasped by the common users is very minimal. The Original English articles would have evolved through the time with an ensemble of users with the subject knowledge and expertise contributing. Sudden extraction of a small portion and translating it to Sinhala and presenting to Sinhala Wikipedians is not proper as we see it. The Sinhala Wikipedia user who would be interested on such an article would be literally waylaid thirst for knowledge wise for he/she will have to wait a long time until another portion of the original English article is translated again. Even then it would be nearly impossible to a novice to recognize the correlation between the articles. Hence if any translation is done, attempt (may be in stages) should be done to encompass the whole original English article in to one single Sinhala translated article. Until the endeavor is completed a suitable notice can be displayed at the top of the Sinhala translated article. (and many interested/knowledgeable users/editors/translators can participate)
  3. You would agree that the usage of correct words and phrases is very important if an article is to impart knowledge on a Wikipedian user. In articles by පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ we notice lack of this aspect which we would attribute to ignorance of translators (we deduce that there is a group; they proclaimed once that each translation goes in front of an expert panel before uploading at Sinhala Wikipedia; ironically during that stage too these grammatical deficiencies were rampant) limited time they allocate for each article and contention that proper grammar is not important. Whatever the reason is, the outcome is horrible. Sinhala words are not proper, sentences do not punctuate properly and translations are improper and do not reflect the original English idea. Considering the august intention of the project in collaboration of Felidae with Action group and ICT group to "educate rural underprivileged children with modern knowledge", I would propose STOP and better not through this effort for we are feeding poison to them; we are confusing their (may be poor) Sinhala knowledge and whatever slight knowledge they have on modern technology etc. Hence the පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ should make a true and dedicated effort to use correct Sinhala grammar in his articles.
  4. You would not disagree with me that Wikipedian articles are linked to each other. The general user should be able to switch to a related article at the click of a computer button through "links" provided within an article. Else, the articles are termed "Orphaned" and they are avoided as far as possible. පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ had avoided inclusion of these links may be due to ignorance or to cut-short the time taken to include the square-brackets. The result is an orphaned article or a dead-end to the mind of an interested user. This practice by පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ had hindered other potential users/translators too who want to develop the topic/article further.
  5. You would agree that pictures speak thousand words. Generally පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ avoids Pictures, Tables, Graphs etc and only translates words (still erroneously). Lately we have observed inclusion of just one image.
  6. One pillar of Wikipedia I see is the dedication of Volunteers. The return for the contributors to Wikipedia is just the satisfaction (mental). If පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ or Felidae movement is taking money for the translations from ICTA or some other entity, it is wrong as we see it. Money corrupts everything and here it is visible. Non commitment, ignoring grammatical rules, breaking original English articles to very small Sinhala articles and thereby increasing the number of translated articles are some of the indicators of corruption of Felidae mind due to Money. THIS SHOULD BE STOPPED.
  7. If any project is done that should be methodical. Repeatedly translating the same English article (Same portion of the English article) reflects lack of organization. I would quote just one instance; the English article is en:Biochemical engineering and three translation by Felidae I have detected ජෛව රසායනික ඉංජිනේරු විද්‍යාව, ජෛව රසායනික ඉංජිනේරු විද්යායව, and ජෛව රසායනික ඉංජිනේරු විද්යාiව. Where is their noble intention? What will happen to the minds of poor rural children?
Finally I would thank god for keeping Sinhala Wikipedia small, for it is easy for our Administrators to keep track of what is happening in it, under their very noses! -- චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුම 04:11, 17 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ ව්‍යසනය[සංස්කරණය]

පරිශීලක:චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුමගේ පිලිතුර සමග මම 100% එකඟවෙමි. පරිශීලක:ෆෙලිඩේ ලිපි අධ්‍යයනය කරන්න. ව්‍යසනය වැටහෙනු ඇත. Singhalawap 05:08, 17 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Thanks චතුනි and Singhalawap. Today my net connection is not working 100%. So you'll have to excuse me a few days to go through all the details. බිඟුවා called me few minutes ago and told about the issue also. Let's try our best to sort this out to everybody's satisfaction. --Lee 05:36, 17 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
Estoy de acuerdo. Muchas gracias --චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුම 06:18, 17 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
I went through the points you’ve given here and considering the fact the user ෆෙලිඩේ is an organization paid by someone to write articles I also believe the articles are not of good quality. As you’ve mentioned here claiming ownership on a Wikipedia article is not something acceptable, that I agree with you 100%. Since my role here is a sysop, I prefer to stay neutral. This is your project; you have to decide what to do. Please make your suggestions in the thread I created in කෝපි කඩේ. --Lee 14:03, 19 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
පෞද්ගලික ජීවිතය‎ නම් ෆෙලිඩේ ලිපිය බලන්න. බැරක් ඹබාමා පිලිබඳ English ලිපියේ පෞද්ගලික ජීවිතය‎ කොටස ෆෙලිඩේ විසින් පෞද්ගලික ජීවිතය‎ නමින් පරිවර්තනය කර ඇත.
මෙවැනි ලිපි බොහෝ ඇත. මින් පසු මම කිසිදිනක ෆෙලිඩේ පිලිබඳ කථා නොකරම්. මගේ කාලය ඊට වඩා වැදගත් කටයුතු සඳහා යෙදවීමට බලාපොරොත්තු වෙමි. Singhalawap 05:11, 20 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Felidae's Involvement in Sinhala Wikipedia[සංස්කරණය]

Hi All,

I am Kanishka and I am from Felidae. Because there is some misunderstanding and debate about Felidae’s involvement in Sinhala wikipedia, we thought it is important to clarify what we are doing.

I understand that Hasitha from Felidae has contacted many of you in this regard and is hoping to have a meeting with all of you. Without waiting for this meeting , I thought it is best to discuss a bit about this project with you.


Introduction to the Project

The Sinhala Wikipedia development project is a project initiated by the Information and Communication Technology Agency of Sri Lanka (ICTA) in partnership with Practical Action and Felidae. As you all know there is plenty of content regarding any subject in the English language on the internet, but there is very limited content available in Sinhala. For our people to use ICT effectively, specially people who are not comfortable with English such as people in rural disadvantaged communities, there needs to be sufficient content in Sinhala on the internet.

The ultimate content/knowledge destination on the web is the Wikipedia. Although people in urban areas will be able to benefit from the English Wikipedia with more than 2.5 million articles, people in rural communities find it difficult to benefit from this. Therefore, the ICT Agency has taken the initiative to develop the Sinhala Wikipedia and promote its use among communities.

When the project started, the Sinhala Wikipedia consisted of less than 300 articles. This was not enough for it to be a general resource for all purposes and for it to become popular among the larger community. The Wikipedia will grow into a useful and multi faceted resource only when there is a sufficiently large number of users who can contribute their wealth of knowledge to the Wikipedia.

Thus, to attract a larger community to the Wikipedia, it is necessary to increase the number of articles in it. It was therefore decided to translate 5,000 articles from the English Wikipedia to Sinhala. This was to be the “seeder” content which will attract more users to use the Sinhala Wikipedia regularly and make it grow in size and quality.

Since the target beneficiaries of the project are rural disadvantaged communities, we did a lot of research earlier on in this project to understand which areas of the vast knowledge available in the English Wikipedia will be useful to them. Focus group discussions were organized with representative sets of rural community members and we discussed which areas they have difficulty obtaining information for out of the areas of knowledge available in the English Wikipedia. This exercise was facilitated by Practical Action South Asia, an organization which is doing a lot of useful development work with rural communities.

In order to get the opinion of the general public in this regard, we also conducted an online survey publicized through e-mailers. Many interested users participated in this survey, and we used the survey feedback to aid our selection of articles as well.


Choice of articles and article length

We collected a lot of useful information from the exercises above, from which we compiled the set of articles to be translated from English to Sinhala. The set of articles chosen covers every area requested by rural community members and the general Sinhala online community.

Due to timeline and other limitations, we were at a dilemma to decide whether to develop a smaller number of full-length articles or a larger number of smaller articles covering more areas. Since the goal of the project is to increase the popularity and usefulness of the Sinhala Wikipedia it is important to have more articles across a diverse set of topics. Only then will the Wikipedia appeal to a larger community of users.

Therefore it was decided to go with a larger number of articles covering a diverse and useful set of topics. The number was set to 5000 articles. The expectation is for this seeder content to be useful to a larger community of users, and for that larger community to develop these 5000 article into the future 10,000 or 100,000 articles of the Sinhala Wikipedia. Only then will the Sinhala Wikipedia become the useful resource people use every day.

So in Wikipedia terminology, you may consider some of these 5000 articles to be Wikipedia stubs.


Brief Introduction to Felidae

Felidae is a company started by 3 undergraduates from the University of Moratuwa in 2005. We do work in several areas with respect to development, specially e-learning and software solutions.

We are a company working genuinely towards the development of our country. We take pride in working with leading institutions in the country as well as the larger community, giving meaning to our slogan “Together we can”. It is therefore our pleasure to be part of this Sinhala Wikipedia development project.


Process

Translating 5,000 articles across different areas in a world leading encyclopedia is no easy task! To meet this challenge we decided to follow the process below.

1) Undergraduates studying in different universities will be used to translate the articles. This ensures that people who know the respective subject areas will be doing the translations

2) The articles will then be typesetted by professional typesetters

3) The typesetted articles are then uploaded to the Sinhala Wikipedia, after which they are reviewed by experts in the respective fields (usually degree holders in the respective areas)


Problems Identified and Possible Solutions

We faced several problems when putting this novel process into action. Some of these problems have been raised by Sinhala Wikipedia community members as well.

The following are the problems that have been noticed.

1) Getting quality work out of some of the translators (mostly undergraduates) is difficult. Therefore some articles that have been submitted are very poor translations, and in the worst cases, word-to-word translations from English.

It must be noted that while some articles have these translation issues, most articles are very well done and are up to the expected level.

2) Some reviewers are slow to deliver reviews due to their busy schedule. This has resulted in us having to limit the amount of expert reviews, meaning that we will not be able to do a expert review of all articles. But we will be doing a layman review of all articles to minimize spelling and other basic mistakes as far as possible.

3) Due to some articles being a sub section of the English article, the title of some articles does not give a clear idea of what the article is about. We are currently working on providing meaningful titles to these articles.

Wikipedia community members have raised most of these concerns and have given us some very valuable feedback. We are currently considering how we can implement the feedback received from the community.


Notice at the bottom of articles

We have put in a notice under each article we have submitted to the Sinhala Wikipedia to say that the article was translated from the English Wikipedia under this project. Although some users have commented on this notice text, it is very important to keep it in so that we can identify which articles we have submitted and for future reference. Although this notice is not published with any commercial intention in mind, we do understand the concerns raised by some Wikipedia users regarding this. We will be discussing with other project partners as to what can be done in this regard.


The Way Forward

The noble wikipedia concept is made possible by great volunteers like you all. We all owe a lot to you for your commitment in developing and moderating the Sinhala Wikipedia and bringing it to the level it is today. We should have gotten in contact with you much earlier on in the project, but it was not clear how to make contact with you. However, I’m very glad that we have finally managed to get in touch and hear each others’ ideas and concerns.


So let’s work together,

Make Sinhala Wikipedia grow to 5000 useful articles,

Get more and more users to see the benefit of Sinhala Wikipedia,

And make Sinhala Wikipedia develop our wonderful motherland.


--Kanishkas 19:13, 7 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]


පරිශීලක:නවෆෙලිඩේ Adding unethical bottom Tag[සංස්කරණය]

නවෆෙලිඩේ is adding the unethical bottom tag to articles. I suggest that account too shout be blocked. Singhalawap 17:27, 8 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]


Lee, please tell me how I can post this message in Kopi Kade as well. Thanks.

I've added a new link in කෝපි කඩේ so you can simply click on it and create a new topic. --Lee 03:56, 12 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]


Felidae & Nirman issue_Sinhala Wikipedia[සංස්කරණය]

Please see m:User talk:Wutsje#Sinhala Wikipedia_Disaster due to si:user:ෆෙලිඩේ and si:user:Nirman , m:User talk:Jyothis#Comment on Wutsje's talk page and m:User talk:චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුම#Comment on Wutsje's talk page and act accordingly please ---චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුම 15:59, 4 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Yep. Have to do something. 02:45, 5 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)
I left a message on ෆෙලිඩේ talk page. Unless he can come up with a good reason, I’ll block him for having an improper username. --Lee 03:14, 6 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]


Dear Administrator Lee
I suggest you not to use word he/himwhen referring to ෆෙලිඩේ. Company owner e-mails me (& probably to others too) & he himself accepts that its a user name used by his company to upload content articles developed bu "experts" working for his company. He says he personally do not know about the quality of the content, so its us (other wikipedians) who needs to show their errors to people working. He mailed me saying he could arrange a meeting between us (චතුනි, Lee, බිඟුවා etc) & people working under him (but not him, according to the mail) . පුහඃ !
So I suggest you to use word "That Company" instead of "him/his".
Singhalawap 04:06, 6 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Thank you, sir[සංස්කරණය]


Thank you & congratulations for your wise decision. We have to clearly mention its not the "word" ෆෙලිඩේ its a company having a user name what matters.: other thing is I do not think just changing the name & fulfilling above 2 criteria is not enough. That company has done following major errors too.

Hope we came to a happy ending of our fight for justice & betterment of our future generation, but be vigilant. Remember though ප්‍රභාකරන් is no more on the earth, shadows are all over the world. Singhalawap


"Unethical Tag"[සංස්කරණය]

Dear Singhalawap,

There is nothing unethical about telling the truth that the particular article was developed under the Sinhala Wikipedia development project. Please read my post above clarifying the purpose of this tag.


Thanks,

Kanishka

--Kanishkas 19:48, 8 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

How can any one with common senses term this uploads by පරිශීලක:නවෆෙලිඩේ as "Sinhala Wikipedia development project"? This is utter destruction.
When the administrator Lee took the decision to block පරිශීලක:‍ෆෙලිඩේ for naming convention, it was also pronounced that adding an ownership tag will not be allowed and permission was granted to remove them too. This implies that any attempt to include such a tag in an article is illegal.
If this පරිශීලක:නවෆෙලිඩේ or his supporters/advisers insist about the tag and continue to include that in their uploads, I suppose you have to block පරිශීලක:නවෆෙලිඩේ or any other future user who attempts such.
Though they categorically deny non-involvement of money with these uploads, this insistence to include this tag creates a doubt in our minds about that denial. -- චතුනි අලහප්පෙරුම 20:07, 8 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Reply to Kanishka & all unethical users from Felide[සංස්කරණය]

  • කිතුලට ගිය මිනිහටත් උත්තරයක් තිබුනා.
  • ඇට නැති දිවනේ. ඕනෙ විදියකට නැමෙනවා.
  • You do a minute work. Wiki community has to work to improve the article. Double burden, to find errors & to improve (& to fined where to merge)
  • Keep in mined - අපි පරණ ගොන්නු වික්කා
Singhalawap 05:58, 9 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Bottom tag[සංස්කරණය]

Bottom tag - will discuss this with the other project partners as to what can be done on this. hope we can give u a favorable response soon. --Hasithad 06:12, 10 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

I think that should remove from wiki. wiki is not a place to publish advertisements. also please have these kind of discussions on කෝපි කඩේ not in personal profiles. බිඟුවා 08:47, 10 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
Dear බිඟුවා
I agree with your suggestion to discussions this on කෝපි කඩේ. I had to reply in this page as Kanishka kept a massage to me in this page. Will copy & past all into Kopi kade.
Dear Lee forgive me for using this page to reply him.
Singhalawap 08:55, 10 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]


අලුත් විකිපීඩියාවක් - සුබ අනාගතයක්[සංස්කරණය]

I have started work, after the war with the culprit. My prorities for now will be....

  • Improve the articles by ෆෙලිඩේ if its a useful topic. Remove the unethical bottom tag
  • Remove the unethical bottom tag if article is acceptable but topic is not that important
  • Deleted the grossly erroneous & useless articles by ෆෙලිඩේ
(about the heading- Nothing political, Just for fun)
Singhalawap 15:29, 6 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

pls dont delete articles. let us know what the articles are. will send them back to the original translators.

as i have explained to lee Yesterday we have created another account to proceed our work and there is no war we have started. we use the user name felidae because we are responsible for the articles we have uploaded. then you can identify the articles we have uploaded and give us your feedback if any, as you are doing now. and most of the time its not the person who is doing the translation uploads the article. however if Lee still thinks that we should not use our company name will change it. But remember we are not trying to get any commercial mileage by doing that. and the Tag line. we understand your concerns - will take action on that. no one can own wiki articles - we understand that.

Pls don't delete the articles. but you can put that tag, so we can send them back to the original translator and get them corrected.

But With a new account we can't edit the article headings of our previous articles. We have some people working on this. we try our best to correct, assure quality. so please help us by being lenient for some time. may be for two weeks,for us to do the required corrections in the previous articles.


as i have mentioned earlier You need to assist us in many ways.lets meet and discuss when u guys are available.

Till then please reactivate our account.

you can send your feedback directly to hasithadela@gmail.com my mobile is 0716841009

--Hasithad 04:01, 7 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Contents is missing[සංස්කරණය]

In English Wiki we can find Contents Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Contents) in Navigator Bar in main page. That really help for browsing. it is missing in sinhala wiki main page. pls add it. බිඟුවා 12:28, 4 මාර්තු 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Bug?[සංස්කරණය]

The two articles බලංගොඩ මානවයා and බලං‌ගොඩ මානවයා, bear the same name yet two different articles? How? I am worried as I have contributed to the second article. -- Srimalpunchi 16:27, 19 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

I think it’s a bug with how Unicode handles Sinhala. It seems though we see both as same to our eyes, the computer sees them as two separate words. I wonder how this issue should be handled. --Lee 08:06, 22 අප්‍රේල් 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]

Latin +Non Latin[සංස්කරණය]

Dear Lee

මාතෘකාක දෝශයක් නිසා "ගෙනයන්න" විධානය මගින් ලිපිය නෙයාමේදී ඉංග්‍රීසි අකුරු සහ සිංහල අකුරු මිශ්‍ර මාතෘකා තැනීමට නොහැක. එවැනි අවස්ථාවල පහත නිදසුනේදී මෙන් පණිවුඩයක් රතු අකුරින් දිස්වේ.
"Planet X හෙවත් “නොදත් ග්‍රහලොව”" cannot be moved to "X ග්‍රහලොව", because the title "X ග්‍රහලොව" has been banned from creation. It matches the following blacklist entry: (?!(User|Wikipedia)( talk)?:|Talk:)\P{L}*\p{Latin}.*[^\p{Latin}\P{L}].* <moveonly> # Latin + non-Latin
මෙම අකුරු මිශ්‍රණය සමහර මාතෘකා සඳහා අත්‍යවශ්‍ය බව සිතමි. නිදසුන් කීපයක් පහත දක්වමි.
  • X ග්‍රහලොව
  • X කිරණ
  • IIවන පරාක්‍රමබාහු රජ
මෙවැන් මාතෘකා අළුතින් තැනීමේදී ගැටළුවක් නැත. ගැටළුව ඇත්තේ ගෙනයාමෙදී පමණි.
විසඳුම කුමක්ද ?
I have started same discussion in Kopi kade too
Singhalawap 09:25, 17 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
Singhalawap 09:25, 17 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
I'm not sure about the solution, but let's see what we can do... --Lee 15:44, 25 මැයි 2010 (යූටීසී)[reply]
"https://si.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=පරිශීලක_සාකච්ඡාව:Lee/Archive/Archive/2010/May&oldid=146809" වෙතින් සම්ප්‍රවේශනය කෙරිණි